1803B horn plans available?

[Audiomind]

FWIW, getting the ?airplane wing? shape is not that hard once you have plotted the interior curves for the individual cells. First, you build the individual cells with a consistent wall thickness. Next, you the build the vertical sections. The first step in building the vertical section is to lapp the cells so you get to zero thickness on both entry and exit sides. For each vertical section you would lapp two opposite sides of one cell for the center and one side of two others for top and bottom. The next step is to glue the individual vertical sections together and let them dry.
Now that you have the vertical sections assembled you lap them so they fit together in the horizontal plane. In the case of the 1803, lay each assembled section of three on the lapping surface and remove just enough material so all four corners zero out. After you have done that you can assemble the required number of vertical sections together to complete the multicell portion of the horn.
Simple really, all you need is more time than money and a bit of hand eye coordination.

Having seen a few different build pics I would say it is well within my capabilities, and yes simple, that is if I had the dimensions, looks kind of fun actually......now back to getting those pesky dimensions....

After doing a little research on the Hornresp program I really want to copy a factory horn as
several people had commented that Hornresp is only a starting place and does not really tell
you how the horn will sound.

I would imagine the factory design probably had quite a few tweaking hours on the design that only comes from listening......and tweaking...and listening...etc. darn I kind of wanted that 250hz cutoff 15 cell with the driver throat visible in the center..hmm sounds like a Vitavox might fit that description but then I wonder if it would like the Altec 290 I am going to be using as much as an Altec horn??!!!!!..........can I win here? Big 15 cell Vitavox horns with Altec drivers any one here tried it? Love to hear about it if so.

[cradeldorf]

Maybe the people who sell them on ebay have some info on building them. They might not be willing to share but its worth asking.
15 Cell Multicell Horns for JBL Beyma Altec | eBay

[GM]

The 1505B allows you to see down the center for a better image and larger sweet spot.

Hmm, as a general rule for HIFI/HT, rising on axis speakers should be toe'd in, including multi-cells, so using 'looking down the throat' as a primary design criteria makes no sense to me. The biggest problem with the large multi-cells is one normally can't sit far enough away for the cells to blend to a reasonable size point source in the HF.

I had 805s for awhile and toe'd in they provided the kind of 'tight' pattern control its design implied. The 1005 has a wider horizontal 'sweet spot' and the 1505 has an even wider horizontal and vertical one, just as they're size/shape implies, so contrary to popular theory, the closer one sits and/or the wider the 'sweet spot' desired, the larger the horn needs to be.

My room at the time was quite large with a ~28 ft listening distance [Lp], so the 805 was ~ideal. My current room/LP ~ideally needs stacked 805s, so not going to happen. If I build anything, it will be a DSL Synergy concept horn to get both the low cut-off and desired pattern.

GM

[GM]

After doing a little research on the Hornresp program I really want to copy a factory horn as
several people had commented that Hornresp is only a starting place and does not really tell
you how the horn will sound.

True, but expo is expo and for sure the 805 is pure expo and I was told by those who should know that all the Lansing/Altec multi-cells are expo, though at least the 18 cells have different shapes to get the desired polar response. The 'magic' is in the terminations and adapters.

GM

[Audiomind]

Hmm, as a general rule for HIFI/HT, rising on axis speakers should be toe'd in, including multi-cells, so using 'looking down the throat' as a primary design criteria makes no sense to me. The biggest problem with the large multi-cells is one normally can't sit far enough away for the cells to blend to a reasonable size point source in the HF.

Not sure if I am understanding you but in my experience aren't we not continually fighting a "sinking" response with compression drivers? *especially those on big horns.


I had 805s for awhile and toe'd in they provided the kind of 'tight' pattern control its design implied. The 1005 has a wider horizontal 'sweet spot' and the 1505 has an even wider horizontal and vertical one, just as they're size/shape implies, so contrary to popular theory, the closer one sits and/or the wider the 'sweet spot' desired, the larger the horn needs to be.

Myself I kind of chuckle when I see anyone using any multi cells close up in a small living room, it is kind of torturous to me. When I finally kicked the multi cells out of my living room for good, I brought my remaining pair and a split 210 box to store at a buddies warehouse until they were sold.

Now at 30 feet+ as you say, it was ideal, everything blends as it was intended and actually it was freakin' amazing, stunning, huge sounding and got me thinking about getting a warehouse of my own........just to listen to multi cells and bass horns(and do other cool stuff in of course, like build more giant speakers)

My room at the time was quite large with a ~28 ft listening distance [Lp], so the 805 was ~ideal. My current room/LP ~ideally needs stacked 805s, so not going to happen. If I build anything, it will be a DSL Synergy concept horn to get both the low cut-off and desired pattern.

Heard Nick McKinney's Unity horn crossed from his way good 15" Lambda driver at around 300hz. It seemed to be quite a tweaky system to get right but when it was dialed in was way better than I expected. Had unfamiliar music playing but I remember the sound was huge, open and shocking that such a weird looking pile of crap could sound so amazing. (This was over 10 years ago now so at the time not many had ever seen this concept including myself so the unfinished prototype just looked like crap pieced together).

I would like to hear the some of the new Danley Synergy version's for sure again to hear if is as good as I remember and if the extra lower horn loading brings any improvements. I still think horns like the 1803 will always sound good no matter what comes next though. Kind of like some old race cars still going fast as hell even though some newer cars are technically faster around the track


GM

Have you heard the Synergy?

[mah]

Some inspirational pics.

CH1505WBWL

[Audiomind]

Some inspirational pics.

(see link in original post above, can't post link's yet until 3 day wait is over)

Yes, there are wood 1803's that are always on ebay by the same guy and he is trying to get almost $7000 with no luck for a quite a while. It is what convinced me that this is a worthwhile effort to make my own. I don't believe he has ever sold a pair, at least not on ebay for that price.

I have seen Altec factory tar/metal 1803B's go anywhere from $1000-$2000 pair although I have not really watched the price for these that long and a single 1803B sold on ebay for around $450 (with $400 shipping though).

As nice looking as the CH horns are, his prices seem to be too high as none have sold. So anyway, the market speaks and says that $7000 is too high for a wood set of 1803's as the same guy can't even get $3500 for the 1505B after quite a long time of listing both horns.

Just an informal survey to those reading, what should be a fair price for some 1803B's in wood?

*Remember how much work these are to do when you put what you think they should sell for in wood, no silly prices like "you would be willing to just pay for the wood", blah, blah but obviously less than $3500 and definitely not even close to $7000.

Also anyone know from what years and how much the factory Altec 1803B and 1505B sold for?

[alancohen]

I've read somewhere that the "going rate" for Altec multicells is $50/cell. That number might be dated, but the 1003s I linked to on ebay are going for that much...sans throats. Like you say, it doesn't matter what people are asking for them; it only matters what people are willing to pay.

In my mind the value of the attactiveness of the wood is offset by the authenticity of having real Altecs. To me it's a wash value-wise. I would lean toward real Altecs if I was buying and not making my own. Real Altecs will always hold their value if you don't damage them. Wood ones will never be worth what you paid retail for them.

[Cal Weldon]

Hi There,

1803 guy here.

Just to answer a couple of things. First, all cells in the 1803B are identical. It's their configuration that makes them seem different. Second, as already mentioned, the 1803 is massive even in comparison with the 1505. The 1505 is probably better for home use but if you really want to be crazy, I'll see if I can find a way to measure the 1803's so you can do a take off. This will not be easy as they are hanging in the speaker room so if you say yes Audiomind, I want you to promise you will build them. I would love to see another build thread. The Petter Persson thread over at diyAudio was absolutely fascinating. His method of using rings that he slid down the horns to act as clamps was a stroke of genius. The finite detailing at the throat must have taken an incredible amount of patience. That was true craftsmanship. My hat was off to him.

[Audiomind]

I've read somewhere that the "going rate" for Altec multicells is $50/cell. That number might be dated, but the 1003s I linked to on ebay are going for that much...sans throats. Like you say, it doesn't matter what people are asking for them; it only matters what people are willing to pay.

In my mind the value of the attactiveness of the wood is offset by the authenticity of having real Altecs. To me it's a wash value-wise. I would lean toward real Altecs if I was buying and not making my own. Real Altecs will always hold their value if you don't damage them. Wood ones will never be worth what you paid retail for them.

$50 a cell would $1800 for a pair of 1803B's. Not to far off what I saw the last pair on ebay sell for, that seems like a good rule of thumb gauge.

As an audio investment there is no question the factory 1803B is a more prudent purchase.

I would venture to say, if done correctly the warmer sound and looks of a wood version would be worth
any slight loss if the retail price is not too crazy like say... $2500 a pair to someone who is actually using them and not keeping them in a garage or basement. I would consider them like "wooden sculptures".